UnBoxed

Expert Logistics Insights for Brands Looking to Scale 

In this episode, host Deb Menter and Beauty Brand Consultant Theresa Plavoukos explore what shipping means for indie beauty brands and small companies that are looking to scale. Hear how Theresa works with clients to partner with the right 3PLs, optimize vendor relationships and be ready for anything — even the best prep work can be challenged!

With 25+ years experience in the beauty industry, Theresa shares expertise on:

• The importance of finding the right 3PL (third party logistics) partner
• Optimizing your vendor partnerships to be ready for anything
• Ensuring your budget and planning includes everything from marketing to shipping

From anticipating breakage to preparing for viral moments, Theresa’s actionable insights cover everything from ecommerce to scaling with large retailers. This episode is perfect for business owners looking to master logistics and protect margins while growing their brands.

Guest speaker: Theresa Plavoukos
Theresa is an Independent Beauty Brand Consultant with many years of experience. She started her career at large brands including L'Oréal and Estée Lauder. For the past 10 years, she has consulted with small independent brands, advising them on planning, budget management, vendor coordination, shipping strategies and scaling in addition to running Product Development and Supply Chain for these brands.

Host: Deb Menter
Deb is on the Client Lifecycle Team at Pitney Bowes, where she helps clients navigate complex rate changes, mailing system migrations, and greater shipping savings and value. You’ll also find her moderating Pitney Bowes webinars, where she addresses common client concerns and provides actionable solutions.

The material, opinions, and information presented in the podcast are for general information purposes only and is not professional advice. Listeners should consult appropriate professionals for specific advice tailored to your situation. The podcast and its content is provided as-is and any use is at the listener’s own risk. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by guests or hosts are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of any company.

The material, opinions, and information presented in the podcast are for general information purposes only and is not professional advice. Listeners should consult appropriate professionals for specific advice tailored to your situation. The podcast and its content is provided as-is and any use is at the listener’s own risk. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by guests or hosts are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of any company.

Deb Menter:
Hi, everyone, and welcome to UnBoxed, presented by Pitney Bowes, your source for all things shipping. This episode, I am pleased to have Teresa Plavoukos join us, she is an independent consultant for Indie Beauty Brands, and she has a lot to share with us today. So Teresa, thank you and welcome to the podcast.

Theresa Plavoukos:
Thanks for having me.

Deb Menter:
Great. So let's start really, really easy, really broad. Can you give me a little bit of your background and how you got started in the beauty industry?

Theresa Plavoukos:
Sure. so I have been in beauty for over 25 years, basically my whole career. I started in advertising actually, and I worked on the L'Oreal account. And we did a lot of commercials and print, and I just got very interested in beauty at that point. And then I moved to client side. So the bulk of my career was spent with big strategic brands like L'Oreal and Estee Lauder.

My first, I would say, really big job was running the eye category for Maybelline, the Great Lash Mascara. And that was a global business. I had a very good team. So from L'Oreal, I went on to Estée Lauder, and I worked with some of the big brands there. I did a fair amount of e-commerce early on, and like in 1999, 2000, getting you know the e-commerce sites up and running. So I did beauty and e-commerce, and that was a very fun, huge, huge learning curve.

And then getting into retail, selling on Walmart.com, Target, and then when working with Prestige brands, selling with Saks, Nordstrom, Neiman's, and all of those specialty retail stores in store and online. And then moved I moved into fragrance for a few years. So I've worked really in every single category. And for the past approximately 10 years, I've been on my own, I have my own consultancy, and I work with indie beauty brands.

Very small brands that either just have one little idea, one concept, or maybe they're around between a one and $5 million dollar brand. And I help them scale. And I work with them in all aspects of their brand, whether it's concepting, logistics, operations, supply chain, I work with a lot of three PLs, and then getting them into distribution and, you know, eventually selling. So try to sell the brand or just scale it and get it to, you know, increase the revenue year over year.

Deb Menter:
That's awesome. Being right there kind of at the start of when e-commerce was booming or starting to grow is is really incredible.

Theresa Plavoukos:
It was the Wild West. it was what What did we learn today? What's new now? There's a new platform. What's it called? What do we have to do with it? How do you do email marketing? What is that? So it was really like every day was now what? You know 

Deb Menter:
Yeah, and now, working with so many different brands at once now in this role, which is probably quite different from really focusing at your previous roles in L'Oreal and Estee Lauder.

Can you tell me a little bit about what changes from brand to brand, what the supply chain looks like, working with different 3PLs?

Theresa Plavoukos:
Sure. So with indie brands, and they're tiny, small one- and two-person shops up to 20 employees, I have found that finding them the right 3PL and logistics is the most important piece of running their business efficiently. And the interesting thing is most founders don't know they need one and they just think things happen. So the to me, finding the right 3PL and logistics partner is really the backbone of any Properly functioning small business you have to have the right partner there because let's face it if your product doesn't get there on time to your customer You have nothing. You're nowhere.

So I work with with small medium-sized brands and I'm gonna say like the sweet spot sort of under under 5 million revenue for me I work with two to three different three PLs sort of in in my rolodex if you will like my preferred partners and based on the needs of you know one particular business, I'll know who to partner them with. So if I'm working with, right now I have four small brands. One brand has one SKU. So I work with one very small 3PL partner in New Jersey because they can handle the you know sending the one piece out. And I work with another brand that has 15 SKUs and it's across you know multiple beauty categories and skincare body. They have some apparel.

So I work with a bigger, 3PL, someone who's more equipped with dealing with skincare where it has to be temperature controlled and then just accessories that need to be treated and packed in a certain way. So I yeah the 3PL is just critical. And then it's one of the first questions, of course, I asked when I'm talking to a 3PL partner is what how well negotiated are your rates? So the 3PL's job is to go out to FedEx, UPS, USPS, negotiate rates, and then they they bring them to us. and that's what they can offer a small brand like us is just to take care of all the logistics. And then for the small brand, it's up to us to come up with our shipping rates.

So you know if you want to offer free shipping, which we know is money out the door, but you have to do it around holiday, typically we'll come up with you know one standard rate, $5.95, $6.95, $2.95. We'll look at competition. and see, you know, what are the other skincare brands doing right now? And if you see some brands are doing free shipping, we're like, gosh, we got to we have to offer that. But typically we try to do one standard rate. And then the 3PL will ship it ah would for whatever negotiation negotiated rate they have. So sometimes, mostly I'm finding with our partners, they are using USPS and UPS, and sometimes it's a combination. So gotcha USPS will do, you know, send it to California and then USPS will pick up and do the final mile. lastly get there So it's a combination, but I want to know from my 3PL that they have negotiated the best rates. And because I work with two, sometimes three, I can see who's been able to negotiate better rates. And typically you work with a larger 3PL who's doing volumes of, you know, brands that have 50 million. revenue, we're going to have better rates because they just have more negotiating muscle. 

Deb Menter:
Right. Do you find that they are negotiating all the time? or they Will they come to you in six months and say, oh, we're now getting a better rate with USPS for the full service. We're going to change. Or are you with one for a longer period?

Theresa Plavoukos:
OK, so that is actually something I'm dealing with right now because I just hired a new 3PL who I think is going to be great. And they have the best negotiated rates that I've seen. And I did ask them, do these fluctuate? So at holiday, they do increase, not surprisingly. Right. So we all know that, and everyone makes that into your into the P&L. But they did tell me that they are able to renegotiate every few months. Wow. So I'm going to check in with them again. And even though they're like very slight fluctuate fluctuations, like 2% to 3%, every penny counts.

Deb Menter:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Theresa Plavoukos:
And you just want to know as a brand, you just want to know that someone's like working on your behalf to keep your costs down. And that's the job is the 3PL is to keep my shipping costs down because we're so small and agile. We can change on a dime and we do like let's, let's do free shipping right now. Let's switch to whatever right now, or we'll offer a GWP or something like that to get them to purchase.

Deb Menter:
Oh, GWP is gift with purchase?

Theresa Plavoukos:
Oh, sorry, a gift with purchase, like an extra something. So, if we can't get it to them in two days, we'll offer something else instead that that is within our capability. Makes sense. We get one, or it's a gift, or it's you know maybe it's we waive the shipping and it's free shipping.

Deb Menter:
Great. I love that. I love a free gift. Yes, of course. Who doesn't? And so when you're running some of these different specials, free shipping, gifts with purchase, how does how do you work with your 3PL to make sure that they are preparing?

Theresa Plavoukos:
Marketing calendar meetings, emotional meetings. So we will do you know we've got any brands will have a 12-month, even out to a three-year marketing plan. But when it gets granular, like on a monthly basis, like in you know In January, we're launching a new product, and our promotion is X. In February, we're going to be in People Magazine, so expect a huge amount of traffic. In March, we're doing a special promo code, with we're collaborating with another retail site, and this is what to expect. A few months ago, we did we we were picked up by People Magazine, and we knew it was coming. We found out two weeks before.

And so we were like, oh my gosh, first of all, this is amazing. But second of all, do we have enough inventory in the warehouse right now? I did a pickup for extra inventory from our contract manufacturer to the 3PL, let the 3PL know it was coming. So they had to you know make space for it. And then I let them know exactly the date it was going to drop and my forecast for how many pieces I thought I might move that day, three day, one week, and then, you know, there's pass along readership. So maybe in the next month, we'll have another bump. So just be ready. We did have a surge in sales, which was awesome. And everything went out. There were no delays. Everything went on time. So it's, you know, that's what working with a good 3PL partner can be. if you plan it and they are prepared and you don't surprise them, then they're going to execute as its if it's any other day. So it's planning, planning, planning. 

Deb Menter:
First of all, that's an incredible story.

Theresa Plavoukos:
It's good. I mean, you know we're your small brands, so when you have a little brand and a big you know outlet, you're like, oh my gosh, let's prepare. And you yeah just get all of your partners ready to make it happen.

Deb Menter:
Yeah, that's amazing. Have you actually, have you run into something like that where it maybe hasn't gone so well and things were delayed?

Theresa Plavoukos:
Of course, of course we have. Yes. we So retail partners, you know, you as a small brand, as an indie brand, you're always begging, can you put me in your email? Can you put me on your social? Can you include me in this promotion? Can you put me in the window? Can you, you know, it's always like negotiating, negotiating. So we did with one of my small brands. So they, they did, they fulfilled our request, our wish and they put us on their social. They just put us in an Instagram post, but it was over holiday and we weren't prepared and it was a dedicated, it was dedicated.

So we were really excited, but we discovered it when we were on our phone. We're like, oh my gosh, we're there. And so we you know it's not like the floodgates opened and we sold out, but we were like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. So yeah again, we called our 3PL and we're like, this is happening right now, so just be ready. so That we had no notice and it was a pleasant surprise and our 3PL was ready, was equal to the task. Can't plan for that. you know When that just happens and someone includes you, you're excited, but you're like, oh my gosh.

You never want to disappoint the customer, so you have to have that solid 3PL partner.

Deb Menter:
Absolutely. And yeah, there's definitely a theme here in what you're saying, which is make sure you have the right partners around you so that you can remain agile and things are going to happen and you got ah everyone's got to be prepared for it. So yeah I think the some of the products that you work with and being liquid is actually a really interesting thing to talk about too. How does it work with packing and shipping and returns?

Because I think working with something that can be a little volatile and you know if we've all been on a plane and had, you know, a shampoo burst in our bag. Can you talk to me a little bit about what it's like working with some of the this type of products?

Theresa Plavoukos:
I'll just note that, uh, two of the brands I work with are in glass. Cause glasses is recyclable. It's all the right thing. So managing glass in like a smaller, here's just like a little, this is glass actually. There is a chance that it's going to break all along the way. So when you place the original, or it starts there when you're placing the order with the supplier, is the chance you take when you're in a sustainable package. So once it ships, then you alert, of course, your 3PL or you're sorry your contract manufacturer, your filler in this case, to receive glass. Supplier knows how to pack out their own you know glass products, the filler knows how to receive it and to handle with care. And then by the way, when they're filling glass, there's another 2% that breaks during the filling process. Sure. Or cracks or chips or whatever they the case is. And then when they're packing it out, you assume about a 1% breakage in shipping from your filler to your 3PL. So all along the way, you're losing a few pieces, right? Yeah, yeah.

And then of course, with that, this is the other part that happens with glass, is damage from leaking. So if something breaks or cracks, your product leaks out and it damages the labels on the other. but Right. yeah So these are sort of chances that you take all along the way to deliver a glass product to the customer, to the end customer, because they leak glass. So you you factor that in in terms of budgeting, but in terms of packing out. So with one of the three pills I'm working with, we request bubble wrap.

You do what you can to protect it, but we have a protocol on how it needs to be packed when you're dealing with glass. And again, with your 3PL, I've had them take photos of my packaging before it it gets covered. So I want to see how it's packed. like They literally take a photo for me. And so I know what it looks like, and I know what the customer is going to see on the end.

And then if and when we do, there are damages and customers report that it's broken, of course we immediately replace it. Like no questions asked, it gets replaced. It gets replaced right away. You have to work the damages into your P&L. And so I have one 3PL who takes returns and another one who's just is like, I don't what am I going to do with the damages in return? I don't need proof that it's broken glass. Tell the customer to throw it out and we replace it.

Deb Menter:
Right. You don't really want to deal with broken glass coming back to you either.

Theresa Plavoukos:
If it's related to a different kind of damage where there's a formula instability, ah there's a color shift or it smells wrong or odd or there's and you want to see like, oh my gosh, what happened? Especially if it's a new product, you need to understand, wait, what's happening in transit? Was it exposed to heat or freeze or what happened in transit that I need to protect my formula. So it's good to know. 

Deb Menter:
It's really, it's interesting because you don't think about all the different pieces that go into that one product that lands on, you know, on your vanity.

Theresa Plavoukos:
I have replaced packaging before because it, you know, it leaks in shipping and you can do ship tests. I've done that before, you know, you fly back and forth from California, East coast, West coast, back and forth to see.

Deb Menter:
Oh, interesting.

Theresa Plavoukos:
Yeah, I've done shift tests, you have to with with these sort of volatile formula and packaging combinations, you have to make sure you know, if it's not a threaded cap that's really screwed in there, or if it's just like a pop on cap, they pop off, things right yeah have to be protected all the way. That absolutely makes sense. do you also for I know you said you get photos, you do these tests.

Deb Menter:
Do you sometimes order you know do a secret shopper for yourself and order some?

Theresa Plavoukos:
All the time. yeah Absolutely. yeah All the time. And you do spot checks all the time, different products completely. You you have to protect it. It's like doing it's no different than like you have a soft launch for a website so you can work out any of the bugs. Absolutely.

Once you get a big legit PO from a retailer, like a Nordstrom, that that is not an option. You can't replace a 10,000 piece order if it's leaking. you know One bottle at a time is easily replaced, but once you're dealing with retailers, ah they could say, you know this arrived broken, it's it leaked, it damaged competitive product, they just will not place another order with you. So you've got to be buttoned up. So all of those little tests, the shipping tests are critical.

Deb Menter:
Absolutely. That makes so much sense. And actually, what a great segue into my next my next question for you, which is, you know, we talked a lot about people who are purchasing online. And so, you're selling online, but you do also have, you do ship to stores in brick and mortar stores. And also, so can you tell me a little bit about that process? And is it very similar with your 3PL, just larger orders at once?

Theresa Plavoukos:
Yeah. So you would, if you are, a big enough brand where you're shipping to a Nordstrom, a Blue Mercury, a Sephora, you're going to want to work with a 3PL that is EDI compliant. I don't know if you know what I mean by that, but EDI is the is the ordering process and it's computers talking to each other. So it's okay the buying office at Nordstrom can talk with the computers at your 3PL. So they issue the order electronically for 5,000 pieces of your new serum through EDI.

Your 3PL receives that order, and they know they start picking and packing, right? So they pack it out according to the retailer's specifications. And there every retailer has different packing specs, and they're very anal about it. And it needs to be labeled in a certain way. It has to arrive in some way. So, when they're receiving gets it, when their distribution center receives it, it's easily identifiable as the order they placed. So you need you know to work with a 3PL that's EDI compliant. And that's one of the first questions I ask any 3PL that I'm interviewing is, are you compliant? And most of them are. So that's how that works. they The retailer places the order through EDI. Your 3PL receives it. They pick and pack. And there is a shipping window.

So you know Let's say they'll pack an order very quickly. Your 3PL is ready with your 5,000 pieces the next day. The shipping window for the retailer to receive it isn't until two more weeks. They cannot ship it outside of the shipping window, or the retailer will not receive it. They'll reject it. They can sit there, and then it has to go back. So ah that has happened to me, which basically is the brand's fault. you know ah It arrived the day before.
And the retailer then notifies you, and they're like, I had to reject your shipment. So then you lose, typically you'll lose your PO, and they'll say, okay, I'll read i issue the new PO, but it has to be for the next month, miss your window.

So you just have, and any good people will know that, and they're like, okay, I can't ship it out until then, and it has to be labeled and packed out this way. You know, whether it's three by six or six by nine, or however it has to be packed out, they'll know. And they, you know If you're working with a good 3PL, they've already shipped to that retailer so they know how they work. And because I work with beauty brands, I work with 3PLs who work with beauty brands. And so they know the space and they understand all the retailer's specifications.

Deb Menter:
Great. One of the other things that we spoke about when we chatted earlier was selling through Amazon, which is also a whole different ball of wax. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Cause you know, there are a lot of specific things you need to do when you ship for Amazon.

Theresa Plavoukos:
It is, I mean, for sure they are their own world and they are their own very special retailer and to not participate on Amazon obviously is a huge missed opportunity. So, in in my space, in and the beauty space, of course, we need to be there. Even when your luxury, in the past few years, luxury brands have come around to Amazon and you just, that's where your customer is. They're buying toilet paper, paper towels, and $150 moisturizer. So you've got to be there. So I've worked with Amazon in different ways. So you can hire an Amazon expert agency, essentially, who they're just absolute experts in this space. And as Amazon is always evolving. They have new rules and new just even listing your product on Amazon. They have new ah SEO words that work that don't work that can get you rejected. You have to be up on how they're running their business on a daily basis because things are constantly changing. It's it's always moving.

So I have worked with small agencies who specialize in the Amazon space and they are essentially your 3PL for Amazon. And they speak the language, the algorithms, and they know how to do that. They will do a projection on how many pieces you should send. So they'll say, OK, for this particular launch, because it's a serum, serums are 5% of all Amazon-viewed universe. So we're projecting that you need 128 pieces for November and December. They'll interface the 3PL to have the 3PL pack it out in the Amazon way, just like a Nordstrom has their own specs of labeling Amazon does as well. And they'll tell you which warehouse it should be sent to. And obviously the Amazon warehouses are all over the country. They're everywhere. And you know luckily for me, I'm on the East Coast. So that's a very easy freight forwarding shipping over to the Amazon 3PL. And then you go on and you you start selling on Amazon. And your agency who who you hired will run it. So that is quite frankly easier because you're not the one who has to deal with Amazon on the daily but on a daily basis.

I work with another brand where we're the agent you know we're the ones who are interfacing with Amazon directly. And you really need someone on your team who is an Amazon expert. So I work with someone like that. I'm not that person, luckily, but the person I know just understands the algorithms and everything. so He will run, my partner will run the Amazon store, you know, they they're running our store. Right. And you have to know some shipping, obviously they have their own distribution mechanics. Amazon is Amazon.

But you have to know sort of how the charge back works. So every month, it's, ah you know, it's sort of part of your revenue, but they take away, it's your revenue, your retail sales minus your margin and minus the shipping. So they charge it back to you. So it's all sort of debited from your sales on a monthly basis. And you'll know that because you're always managing your your Amazon account. But it is its own fantastic animal that you you have to be part of and you have to understand it and keep up with it because it's constantly changed on, has its language that you need to understand if you want to participate in the space.

Deb Menter:
Everything with Amazon is so interesting because you do have to be there. It's just crazy how wide that universe has become. But ah knowing that back end piece of like how intricate it is to get there, to get on Amazon, to get viewed and then all the specifics on like their shipping process and how individualized it is. 

Theresa Plavoukos:
Yes. It really is. And one other thing I'll add to that, just on the front end with Amazon that can affect your shipping is you, in skincare, there's so many ingredients and they're considered active or structure function. Ingredients that Amazon could all of a sudden decide to say, identify it is not toxic, but it get can get flagged. Oh yeah. And your listing comes down. Oh my goodness. And you have to find your way back.

And then you have you know you have to manage the shipping on that end because it could take a nosedive and then you've got to get your listing back up and then and then you have to ramp up again. So it's constantly changing. but you absolutely have to participate and understand all the things that could happen.

Deb Menter:
With all of your work with individual, and these indie brands, and they come to you and they've got these big dreams, and what's one of the things that you talk to them most about? What are ah some of the things that they aren't thinking about when they're building these brands?

Theresa Plavoukos:
Well, yes, you're right. They have these huge dreams. They're going to sell them through years and be millionaires. And I want to help them do that. But the reality starts with the budget, the budget, the budget, and they, you know, they have money set aside for marketing and Instagram and influencer in all of the social pieces, all the fun stuff. But the missing piece and the piece that they don't want to talk about and don't even know they need to is shipping, shipping and freight. And they just don't carve it out in their budget.

So when I build them, you know, their P and&L or just their their spend, their budget for the year, freight and shipping is always there and we have to have the conversation because it's it's the hidden piece that they they forget about they don't want to talk about and they just assume it's folded into whatever they're paying their 3PL but it's not and if they don't allocate for it and plan for it They will have some unhappy surprises. They may get orders They may have some big holiday and they're shipping out 15,000 pieces and they thought they made all of that money but once they calculate in shipping they realize that you know it affects your margin and affects your total budget and cost and if you don't plan for it up front you will be very disappointed so it's sort of it's it's not the sexy part of launching a brand, but it is obviously the necessary part.

If you don't budget for it, you're going to have to cut elsewhere. So you may as well plan for it up front. And that's that's what I the reality I have to tell them every single time.

Deb Menter:
Yeah, no, it's great advice. And that's even where you know working with your 3PLs and how they negotiate rates is so vastly important because every penny really counts. and You want to make sure that, you know, you can ship your brand and you can promote your brand.

Theresa Plavoukos:
Exactly. And a lot of these indie brands are bootstrapping and really, it really is their own money that they're spending and you just have to make sure that they've got it allocated in the right places.

Deb Menter:
Yeah, absolutely. That was amazing. I'm going to wrap it up with you and thank you so much for your time, for your expertise. This was a great conversation.

Thank you so much everyone listening like and subscribe and we'll see you next time on UnBoxed.